Thursday, November 11, 2010

John Seddon Site Admits "Systems Thinking" Is Just Another Term for Lean

The Seddonistas LOVE to yell about how lean and their brand of "systems thinking" are fundamentally different.

That's not what Seddon's own website says:
"Lean or systems thinking as Seddon prefers to call it..."
The piece then continues with more distortions of Lean, but that's another story:

The full quote:
Lean or systems thinking as Seddon prefers to call it (lean leads managers to think primarily of cuts and not improvements in service capability) is a way of thinking about and seeing work.
Lean leads people to think cost-cutting? What? That's what traditional management does.


  1. I used to believe that what Seddon calls Systems Thinking was like Lean. I had been studying for an MSc in Lean Operations 3 years ago.

    Then when I began to study the Vanguard Method I discovered that unlike Lean (which has a 98%+ failure rate according to one Lean website) systems thinking is a powerful and graceful model that is much more effective in helping leaders to transform their businesses. I recognized a lineage with systems thinking, that is clear and distinct.

    I think that this website is a testament to how powerful John Seddon's ideas are.

    As Seddon is exposing where LEAN doesn't work, he is being attacked by those whose business interests and balance books are being hit.

    Keep on keeping on John!

  2. "Keep on keeping on?" Howard, you can tell John that there in your office since you work for him. You are brainwashed. Go back to uni.

  3. Graceful model?

    I have never been able to find one model that visually depicts this new and improved way of 'seeing' things.

    Observation is a one legged stool without a map to action.

  4. Systems thinking is a powerful and graceful model .......very confused .. What systems thinking approach are you referring to? As systems thinking is a literacy and way of thinking about the world and NOT a method or methodology and also covers a range of approaches including systems dynamics, critical systems heuristics, SODA etc I can only conclude you do not understand what systems thinking is and is not